![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Sep. 1st, 2005 09:34 amI've been through 9 hurricanes at last count, including Andrew, the big one, in '93. The devastation in South Miami was unreal. The Katrina damage looks all too familiar, though Andrew didn't bring the flooding that Katrina is bringing. Odd, considering the nearness of the Everglades, but Miami is actually above sea level, barely.
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
corto had an interesting question about shooting looters in the US. I figured there are levels to be reached before ordering such, so I had to look this up. From several sources (wikipedia, usconstitution.net, current news, etc):
*Martial Law itself doesn't necessarily need to be officially declared. The US Constitution says that Habeas Corpus (the protections of citizens from the government, such as imprisonment and other court-related rights) may be suspended in case of huge emergency, such as invasion or such, but doesn't specifically mention martial law -- martial law is kind of a side-effect of the suspension of Habeas Corpus.
*If a de facto martial law is in effect, even then special orders must be given. After the San Francisco earthquake of 1906, martial law was declared unofficially (troops were released from the Presidio to maintain order and try to stop the spread of fire) and troops were ordered specifically to shoot looters among their other duties.
*During this state, since Habeas Corpus is suspended, troops can order citizens to do things they wouldn't necessarily be able to be ordered to do, such as curfews and moving people by force to shelters from a citizen's own land. They can arrest people on suspicion and hold them indefinitely without being charged, or hold a military tribunal instead of a jury by peers.
*Generally, though, martial law (official or unofficial) cannot be arbitrarily invoked. The Supreme Court has ruled that martial law can not be instituted when the courts are in operation.
*In New Orleans, Mayor Nagin said the city was under martial law. Many have been saying there is no martial law in New Orleans right now. The mayor may actually not have the authority to invoke that (it would probably be the governor or the President). There is some question whether the term "martial law" even exists in the Louisiana Constitution, though that is a semantic thing that only lawyers love to debate.
*Like San Francisco in 1906, martial law is in effect unofficially. The courts in New Orleans and southern Louisiana are underwater, destroyed, unpowered, or otherwise shut down. National Guard troops are roaming the city and Habeas Corpus is more or less suspended. However, I haven't heard of any order where troops are allowed to shoot looters. In fact, just the opposite -- there are reports of looting occurring right in front of troops and cops, who are doing nothing as they are too busy trying to find trapped survivors.
*This may change soon. Governor Blanco is "furious" about the looters. New Orleans is a city with no serious law right now and has typically been a high-crime city even without natural disasters -- the city was on its way this year to regaining the title this year for the most murders per capita in the US. There have been reports of citizens shooting weapons inside the Superdome and on the streets.
-----
I remember the chaos after Andrew, the misery, yet also the wonderful acts of strangers helping strangers. The Red Cross volunteers can be the very definition of heros. Here's to hoping the city, the states, the entire area recovers soon.
corto had an interesting question about shooting looters in the US. I figured there are levels to be reached before ordering such, so I had to look this up. From several sources (wikipedia, usconstitution.net, current news, etc):*Martial Law itself doesn't necessarily need to be officially declared. The US Constitution says that Habeas Corpus (the protections of citizens from the government, such as imprisonment and other court-related rights) may be suspended in case of huge emergency, such as invasion or such, but doesn't specifically mention martial law -- martial law is kind of a side-effect of the suspension of Habeas Corpus.
*If a de facto martial law is in effect, even then special orders must be given. After the San Francisco earthquake of 1906, martial law was declared unofficially (troops were released from the Presidio to maintain order and try to stop the spread of fire) and troops were ordered specifically to shoot looters among their other duties.
*During this state, since Habeas Corpus is suspended, troops can order citizens to do things they wouldn't necessarily be able to be ordered to do, such as curfews and moving people by force to shelters from a citizen's own land. They can arrest people on suspicion and hold them indefinitely without being charged, or hold a military tribunal instead of a jury by peers.
*Generally, though, martial law (official or unofficial) cannot be arbitrarily invoked. The Supreme Court has ruled that martial law can not be instituted when the courts are in operation.
*In New Orleans, Mayor Nagin said the city was under martial law. Many have been saying there is no martial law in New Orleans right now. The mayor may actually not have the authority to invoke that (it would probably be the governor or the President). There is some question whether the term "martial law" even exists in the Louisiana Constitution, though that is a semantic thing that only lawyers love to debate.
*Like San Francisco in 1906, martial law is in effect unofficially. The courts in New Orleans and southern Louisiana are underwater, destroyed, unpowered, or otherwise shut down. National Guard troops are roaming the city and Habeas Corpus is more or less suspended. However, I haven't heard of any order where troops are allowed to shoot looters. In fact, just the opposite -- there are reports of looting occurring right in front of troops and cops, who are doing nothing as they are too busy trying to find trapped survivors.
*This may change soon. Governor Blanco is "furious" about the looters. New Orleans is a city with no serious law right now and has typically been a high-crime city even without natural disasters -- the city was on its way this year to regaining the title this year for the most murders per capita in the US. There have been reports of citizens shooting weapons inside the Superdome and on the streets.
-----
I remember the chaos after Andrew, the misery, yet also the wonderful acts of strangers helping strangers. The Red Cross volunteers can be the very definition of heros. Here's to hoping the city, the states, the entire area recovers soon.
